Robert Costa of The Washington Post details the debate going on within the Democratic Party over Trump and articles of impeachment. Aired on 12/02/19.
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WAPO: Democrats Debating Whether To Expand Trump Articles Of Impeachment | The 11th Hour | MSNBC
So many potential articles of impeachment…somebody make a bingo card!
Bingo card isn’t big enough.
So, do we mark the centre spot ‘Lies’? I mean it usually is the ‘free’ spot.
😉
There is so much but I think the more you have the better, and it wouldn’t take much more time. Then impeach and LOCK HIM UP along with all the other traitors
Pelosi is doing the right thing…..THe more you add to it….the more confusing it becomes to the American ppl and make no mistake…it doesn’t matter HOW much evidence there is…the Senate will NOT convict because they have sould their souls and are following that train to the end. This is to show the American ppl what Trump did…..the House will impeach…the Senate will aquit…..it will all be done by Christmas so that the Dems can then start promoting their candidates for the 2020 election..and ill use the words “Impeached President Donald Trump” every time they say something…and can get on with their own campaign promises to the American ppl.To add articles would drag it out…..taking away from the Dems own progress of Presidential Candidates.
I would like to know what other crimes they *could* charge him on, but for expediency have narrowed them down to a few. I agree, if we were to try *every* charge we’d be here for 5 or more years. Every step unveils more crimes. As one person put it, Trump’s a walking crimewave!
Emoluments clause?
Throw the book at him. It won’t make any difference because the republicans don’t care if Trump has broken the law, or not. In addition, half of Americans believe anything they hear on whatever media they listen to. There is no objective reasoning or attempt to gather real evidence.
Accept additional evidence, and testimony. If it looks to be significant. I guess be open minded about making it larger. The courts today gave suponeas teeth saying former Whitehouse council cannot not have a stay to appeal must honor request for testimony. That opens the door to a myriad of people who will based on precedent be made to testify or be in contempt of court.
The Supreme Court just has to refuse to take the case and let the lower court ruling stand.
@ruth depew The law on the point is clear: the Congress has the inherent power to issue subpoenas for testimony, complete with relevant documents, as a means to carry out its legislation functions. The USSC is not going to take the case because the appellate court is right on the law and the Orange Sh*t Gibbon doesn’t have as much as a legitimate argument to make that settled law should be overturned.
If you read Schiff’s letter from last week he indicates there will be three articles of impeachment.
Almost gitmo time for msnbc
That’s very fascist of you.
probably for you as well
WaPo needs to take note!
18 U.S. Code § 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government.
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.
@Vance Watley Acts of Treason, Sedition and Espionage (which is also Constitutional Law) will find no protection under the 1st Amendment for such crimes!
Rani Rich you got proof?
@Vance Watley Does President Trump / DOJ have proof? Yes! They even have their comm’s including online gaming and Ham Radio. FISA’s work both ways don’t you know??? For Constitutional Laws, read the Constitution. If that isn’t enough for you, wait around a few more days, it’s all about to hit the fan.
If stupidity was an impeachable offence, Trump would be in maximum prison solitary confinement already
The reason why Trump isn’t sending any of his lawyers to participate in the hearings is because he has no lawyers that can actually mount a legitimate defense for his actions. More importantly, Trump doesn’t even have a witness to send to the hearings that would be able to dispute the evidence against him. I’m mean who is going to send…Pompeo? Absolutely NOT!!!
What about Bolton? Nope, he hasn’t been seen since he ran out of the White House before Rudy “the handgrenade” blew up. What about Mulvaney? Nope…that’s out of the question. How about Rudy? 😲😲
Anyone of those potential witnesses for Trump are actually co-conspirators in Trump’s crimes. They would either have to give him up, or commit perjury under oath during the hearings. That’s why Trump’s not sending any lawyers are witnesses to defend him. Because he has no defense. Like Sondland said during his testimony, ” EVERYONE was in the loop.”😄
Throw the entire “BOOK” at him!!! If this were a criminal trial, you don’t just go with the one charge cause it is faster. You charge them with everything you have the evidence for! He shouldn’t get away with anything. Or else, the next President gets to do it too without punishment and is above the Law and Constitution. We have the Mueller Report. Put in everything he found that was criminal and that was an abuse of power and all of the Obstructions of justice! Put in all of his Emoluments Violations (which = accepting bribes)! NO EXONERATION!!!
@Utha Whether you are correct or not about only needing to impeach him on one thing is dependent upon who is President next and whether or not they will Pardon Trump the way Ford did to Nixon. And, it depends on whether or not our next election is going to be valid.
I believe that if Nixon was actually held accountable for ALL of his crimes instead of just being fired/ impeached (technically resigning), we would not be in this horrific situation now. Just this week, MSNBC and CNN hosts were saying we have never removed any President from office. They treat Nixon’s case like “we the people” didn’t remove him from office. He just suddenly chose to resign. I still hear people using the saying I was taught as a kid about Nixon… “It wasn’t the CRIME, it was the COVER-UP.” Well, I did a lot of research recently on what Nixon actually did and found out that the MANY CRIMES he was totally involved in were a heck of a lot more insidious and atrocious than just some “WATERGATE cover-up.” And, I’m going, “Why was I given the impression that Nixon wasn’t involved in the conspiracy of the actual crime and that it was just about a cover-up of ONE single bungled third rate burglary incident?!?” I was not taught there was a whole series of incidents Nixon did to undermine our election and persecute his enemies/political opponents.
How this House Impeachment is seen in the future also depends on whether or not Trump is allowed to rig the 2020 election like he, his campaign members, the Constitution and the Russians did in 2016 to overthrow the popular vote. Moscow Mitch, Barr, and the RepubIicans in Congress are doing everything they can to prevent us from prosecuting Trump for the MULTIPLE CRIMES Trump committed which were uncovered by the Mueller Investigation for which few people have actually read the report cause they have been FALSELY REPEATEDLY TOLD that Mueller found NOTHING INDICTABLE!!! When the truth is that if Trump wasn’t President and got caught doing all of those crimes, he’d be in jail for a very long time along with all his criminal cronies according to about 1,000 lawyers who wrote a letter to Congress!!! Many people don’t understand this is a very long pattern of unacceptable and ILLEGAL behavior that Trump has done and how serious his crimes are to the future of keeping our republic.
We can’t protect our next election from interference from foreign countries if that remains the narrative!!! If the House doesn’t throw the complete book at him now, and make the Senate vote on ALL of it, the Republicans can continue their completely false narrative that this was ONE measly incident of Trump asking Ukraine to investigate a crime that they are being told was being covered up by Joe Biden and that this does not rise to the level of being impeachable! This is what the people who don’t pay as much attention to politics as we do are being told!!! I believe that each one of Trump’s High Crimes and violations of the Constitution should be enough to be impeachable. But, most people haven’t been told he committed them. Asking enemies to illegally cyber attack a former Secretary of State and USA citizen’s computer after they “BURGLED” the DNC and committed Social warfare and planted malware in hundreds of thousands of American computers; and framing opponents for crimes they did not do; and Obstructing Justice; and Intimidating Witnesses; Defying subpoenas; Contempt of Congress; accepting emolument bribes, etc. This can not be acceptable behavior for any President!!!
If the whole case is not presented now, it will be seen as vindictive to do anything about all of his crimes later– instead of doing justice according to the Law and doing what the Constitution says to do with Presidents like Trump. It will be seen as PURELY POLITICAL, the way Clinton’s impeachment was instead of being about Trump doing much more heinous crimes than what Nixon’s crimes were and Abuses of Power were because Trump is ON TAPE and IN TEXTS and in CALL “TRANSCRIPTS” welcoming foreign governments with both arms open in order to help in the treachery.
My own family has no clue what the President has done to deserve being impeached. They sometimes watch a little Fox News at night before they go to bed. They are busy during the day and think it is rude to discuss politics and religion with anybody who doesn’t agree with them. They barely watched the Impeachment Inquiry Hearings. So, they have no idea why simply withholding Aid from a “corrupt country” like Ukraine should matter to THEIR LIVES– when the U.S.A. President is currently the one attempting to corrupt the new Ukrainian President, putting lives in jeopardy while helping Russia to invade their country which would be a big problem for the USA and a problem for all of our allies, and Trump is making our elections invalid!!!
@Elaine Johnson
Thanks for your in-depth reply and I take what you are saying on board. In an ideal world, he deserves to have the book thrown at him. He has committed more crimes as President than any other before him, and hopefully in the future.
I agree, many people are oblivious to what is really happening here and it’s not just “busy lives”, although plays a significant part, but also the absolutely polarized media. Right-wing media are spinning their own narrative completely different to reality and people are being sucked in hook, line and sinker. There is also some left-wing media that go a bit over the top but is more enthusiasm than trying to alter the truth.
I think the biggest factor is timing, though. If we have too many articles there just won’t be enough time prior to the election and Republicans will do their utmost to slow walk as much as they can and make an absolute mockery of the constitution.
The way Republicans are spouting Russian propaganda for their own needs to heinous and Putin must be laughing so hard at them, but they seem to want this alliance. To me, this is treasonous behavior, and I am aware of the requirements for treason we must be at war, but nevertheless, I believe one could argue this is an information war
I’m for naming all the crimes, keeping them at the forefront but reminding the people the roadblocks that Trump is putting in place restricts the time we have to try these crimes as part of the impeachment. I don’t know, really, the way Trump is breaking the law every day, some times multiple times in a day, it just doesn’t seem justified not to exclude them, but as one of the hosts said, we need to draw a line in the sand and say we have enough evidence we need to move forward and litigate.
There is one thing I would definitely want to see, and that is his tax returns for at least while he has been President, and maybe as candidate. I think this would show irrefutable evidence that the people can better understand what he has been up to. If his base sees him enriching himself they will turn on him which in turn would give the Senate the courage to convict.
But unless Trump does something so heinous that it pushes Republicans to convict, I don’t seem Trump being removed from office. I’m hoping the label of Impeached over his head will be enough to have him voted out of office. *Then* the states can have their go at him.
@Utha Thanx. We are in TOTAL agreement. Have you seen the New York Times article about him receiving $413 Million from his Dad and helping his Dad evade paying taxes and how Donald tried to gyp his sister out of her inheritance?
Also, have you ever done a search on http://www.wikipedia.com for the “3,500 LAWSUITS” Trump had BEFORE he was appointed President? It tells about Trump’s past tax return indictment cases amongst LITERALLY thousands of other things like his mob connections, sexual assault accusations, racism trials, 6 Bankruptcies that led to Russia and Saudi Princes bailing him out after his father died… I could spend hours on his corruption! The site also links you to his lawsuits that are still pending and already decided since he became appointed President. It is sickening to see all that and think of all the good that could have been done with the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of dollars he was forced to pay in reparations to all the people he defrauded and harmed! Trump and his family can’t even legally run a charity since they defrauded theirs!!!
@Elaine Johnson
Yes, I am well aware of his “small” $1 million loan that turned out to be $400+ million and that he tried to alter his Father’s will in his favor while he was on his death bed. What a nice guy…
I’m also aware of the number of lawsuits he’s had and that many of them were either settled out of court or dropped by the contractor because Trump just tied everything up in court and they couldn’t afford to continue with the legal fees. It would be an interesting exercise in how much he has not paid his contractors over the years.
The way he defrauds banks by over-inflating assets when he wants to borrow and underestimates when it’s tax time. And that the only bank that lends him money is Deutsche Bank which has been known to launder Russian money. An that since his Father’s death he has gone to bed with the Russians to make money. He is now so compromised from the “favors” been given to him by the Russians that he can’t be trusted in any kind of policy, let alone foreign policy.
The way he kowtows to the likes of Putin, Ergodon, MBS, Kim Jong Un, etc is sickening to the stomach. As Pelosi says, everything leads to Putin and the GOP enable him every day.
@Utha Yes, hopefully, Individual #1 will be held accountable by SDNY after he is out of office for the MULTIPLE crimes Michael Cohen helped him to commit.
I could care less about his personal CONSENTUAL affairs. What I care about is the fact that he is ON TAPE starting the FAKE company he used to pay Hush Money right before the election to people who could have stopped him from being President. The same FAKE company was also used to collect CAMPAIGN contributions from companies like Novartis and AT&T. And, the fact he attempted to cover it up is clearly an admission of knowledge of guilt. His Witness Intimidation of Michael Cohen calling him a rat and threatening to go after Cohen’s family was really despicable too and I hope he doesn’t get away with it!!! Thank goodness he can’t be pardoned from the SDNY investigated crimes.
If the courts released more then use it.
Expanding Articles just means: Nobody’s buying it. We need to try something else.
@Taloquin Ignore the point Rider’s making and reply with a stupid, childish question. Get out of my thread, jerk.
@Rider More evidence! lol Dem’s need time to invent more BS.
Hey Rider NufNuf…there isn’t a law agency in the world ( other than Utterly Stupid America) that would waste it’s tax payers hard earned dollars & resources on your illegitimate pretender; feigning its own importance. Only its MAGAT-base would fund such useless endeavours….desperate to legitimise a criminal. Wasted your vote/donation….Much?
Rider typical f@ckin’ republicon reply….completely unfounded and misinformed!
@Susie Que <<< The country should never forgive this one for what she has done to ruin it.
They really need to expand the articles of impeachment. Trump has been committing impeachable offenses since before he took office. So long as they don’t expand them too far at first. Add to it to help solidify the need for impeachment, then if Trump beats it and wins 2020 continue on with other investigations. Everything from the Emoluments Clause to firing Comey. Trump admitted on live national TV that he fired Comey to try and stop the Russia investigation for crying out loud. That is the VERY DEFINITION of obstruction of justice.
Baby steps at this point.
Do it.
Punish ALL of his criminal conduct.
The only way to ensure that the lesson is learned for the future.
Otherwise, Trump will keep doing this until he croaks…
Once the Mueller grand jury info is released it will change their defence of trump and others , it is very damning.
A few dozen people are going to have brown undies when the rest of the shoes fall and there isn’t one of them who will be willing to do federal time to save Trump. The rattle snakes are already biting at the tails of their fellow criminals.
Can you cover Hong Kong and Epstein and save impeachment for when you have something juicy. It’s getting boring hearing the same old “we almost got him, just you wait”
$100 trump won’t get removed from office. Oh ya, most of the dems commenting here likely don’t have jobs.
ivgondef <<< Suppositions and guesses without one scintilla of evidenced to back up the assertions. GOP play book on display here.