Washington Post investigative reporter Craig Whitlock joins Morning Joe to discuss his new reporting on why 'Afghan security forces’ wholesale collapse was years in the making'.
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Afghan Army Didn't Want To Fight For Their Own Government: WaPo Reporter
I had a relative in Afghanistan in the Marines 10 years ago. He said they had to walk by what were effectively enslaved locals working poppy fields for the local “governor” who had foreign mercenaries protecting himself and his opium business. Of course he was corrupt. Why this sort of thing wasn’t stopped is why the Afghan military wouldn’t fight.
I saw the same thing but “los gomeros” opium workers were not enslaved. The Afgan Army often times had their weapons confiscated (and food) confiscated by their commanders and sold to the muj. Leadership starts at the top. The Afgan soldiers were mistreated and neglected by their commanders. They just did not believe in tge corrupt govt we wanted them to have.
@biggb You are totally correct.
@Jaime Garcia My nephew said the locals were forced to work in the fields for no pay but the promise of “protection” from the Taliban which is why I wrote “semi enslaved.” If that wasn’t the case maybe I misunderstood or maybe it was different in different areas. I am just repeating what I was told.
Thank you, Mr. Shaw. I was in the Army for 21 years and had three tours in that place. I don’t doubt there are some enslaved opium tappers a hashish makers. Warlords do anything they want w/or w/out the Taliban. The Afganis, it seems, never do the same thing the same way twice. I learned that some of the dope makers have been doing that before the advent of islam. We trained their Army. On paydays they were attentive. They were very physically fit and intelligent. Their “officers” Refered to them as “filth.” They would sell their weapons to the Muj. On paydays the would smoke concentrated cannabis and drink tea and eat rice pudding all day. I used to hear the interpreters say our experience in Afganistan was going to end exactly as it did. At least, there was consensus about that. I am not a political creature, but I believe Biden did the right thing. A month or so ago he funded a big MIPR to move the I Terps and families out of the country. So the Muj took over the whole country without much trouble. 20,000 irregulars that only fight half the year. If it was important to them they would have tried to stop them for the money, medicine, and welfare we give them. I am retired, so I can have an opinion. Over 2,000 Soldiers and Marines died after getting some 9/11 types running the Takiban into Pakistan plus wasting $2 trillion. I feel so badly for those Anericans that died and were disabled. I hope that our country ceases and resists its expressed desire to create nations. Who knows, if all the government officials and officer corps hadn’t left their army might have put up a fight? I hope you relative that served there is well and I am grateful for his sacrifice
King Poppy. Just so u know Russia and China probably got an understanding with Taliban to keep their embassies open and functioning.
Poppy is King.
I honestly don’t know what else we could have done to help the Afghan people.
@delr merti Silly.. Why did the Taliban not need western “air support, logistics, intelligence”? Maybe you are missing something? Could it be because you are on the bad guys side, so can’t see why a better people can win without all this modern help? You are the “ignorant” one here, being “willfully” ignorant on what makes people fight.
@ed kang – You only value freedom cos you have been taught from birth to value freedom. People value what they have been taught to value.
You have way less self-determination than you think.
Also – Americans always believe that everyone wants to live like an American – the majority of the world think the American way of life is disgusting.
I don’t – Im British, but I am very well-travelled and a psychologist, I can assure you. Most people on this planet DO NOT want to live in an American style culture / American style corrupt democracy.
@ed kang 20 years of American propaganda telling them the Taliban are the devil. SIMPLE. They are not fleeing from violence – there is none.
They are fleeing from the fear of violence largely instilled by the Americans in order to get them to fight [in theory] against the Taliban.
@Piccalilli Pit Uh you guys have some good food though.
@mbtbd Your incompetent clown pretending to be an executive couldn’t get a job as a shoe shiner in the real world. He’s a complete embarrassment to the Western World and their cultural norms. He’s a geriatrics Alzheimer’s klutz looking for things to totally screw up.
Let’s not pretend that this is a huge shock. Everyone knew this was what would happen when the US withdrew from Afghanistan, that’s why three presidents chose to kick the can down the road to their successor rather than do what needed to be done.
You are exactly right sir
@N 827 I can assure you that from New Zealand Trump is the laughing stock – Biden is the first president two decades prepared to do what had to be done.
@Kelvin Phillips we succeeded in Japan and Germany but were not willing to take the same steps today.
@Mac Mcleod With Japan and Germany there was a declaration of war, a draft and a total mobilization of US resources.
There was never any political will or national consensus to do the same for Afghanistan.
@Kelvin Phillips yes exactly. No plan and no National will to get the job done. It was basically the military industrial complex sucking trillions of dollars from the rest of the GDP.
Afghanistan is a multiethnic and mostly tribal society. The population consists of numerous ethnolinguistic groups, and they have never been loyal to any president or central government. Their loyalty lies with their individual ethnic groups/tribes. This sober reality is why the Afghan military wasn’t willing to defend Kabul or their government.
@Matthew Neddeau that’s very true. The soldiers that worked with OUR air support and were under the eye of US commanders did very well and they did suffer big casualties. Under Afgani stewardship their Air Force, supplied by us with some expense to the country went rapidly downhill and was never competent at supporting ground crews. I don’t know if that was a fault of their training or lack of monetary support. It’s been acknowledged that the Afghanistan army was horrible at paying its men, getting them supplies and supports was spotty in many cases. Their elite commando force is still in action and here was a report of two other groups in the mountains that were holding out. I wish them luck while I hope we don’t have to send any more men.
@Matthew Neddeau Nope, but you don’t pull out in what the Taliban call fighting season, you wait till winter…… and you don’t tell the entire earth you’ve removed the troops…. and lastly, you get your people out before you withdraw said troops…. Biden left us with our pants down and pissen in the wind….. to a terrorist and brutal organization…. You do agree he did it the right way…. because if you do, you need to be on his team…. he loves yes men.
They Cut Their Own Throats,as far as I see.
@delr merti It’s partly true,they did need medic support which was certainly lacking.
@hussein hussein Oh, tough guy. How many of you tried to jump on an airplane to run from the Taliban again? Where was your balls when your population returned to be just serfs for Pakistan Pashtuns and work from sun up to sun down on their poppy fields? Do you need an American soldier behind you always?
Maybe, most Afghans didn’t think the Western way it is their way.
@Crisis Cycling If they didn’t want the western way, don’t take the western training or money.
Been training them since 1979 under Carter.
Yeah, the men certainly didn’t, but I am sure the women would have made great soldiers. No Taliban would have beaten them, because they would have been fighting for their FREEDOM
@SR FH Exactly.
Why change them!? This can only come from the people themselves. They have to want it, to make it happen. I don’t see that happening now, or ever !?
why should American soldiers fight and die when Afghan soldiers are not?? this was a lost cause that Biden was courageous enough to bring to an end.
@N 827 a sore loser 🤮
@tori2dles r you saying that our soldiers should continue to be there longer?
@N 827 Going to the Capital on Jan 6th didn’t help you..stfu
Yup, unlike his former boss Obama who imagined thousands of more troops could force the traditional tribal Afghans to except the liberal homosexual-trans agenda.
Well, y’all started this war, remember? The Afghans never asked for it. They were not involved in 9-11, some Saudi’s were, and they prepared their attack in Europe. Y’all mistakenly messed up yet another country and you ask why Afghans don’t want to fight?
After 20 yrs if they don’t want to take care of themselves, it’s not our job to protect another country if they refuse to do it on their own. We have our own country that is falling apart. Bring them home let Afghanistan take care of it own.
@The J’s Highly nuanced and complex analysis. Shimmering Lavender Light and Radiant Luminous Love! Water is Wet, Fire is Hot.
@Samudra Manthan This is why russian trolls are so meh. Once you have no more talking points to hammer down and you think you got a catch and wanna extended the trolling you just start spewing non-sense
@Dopeamiine Right? So true! This is a contiguous conundrum, of exponentially expanding proportions. However, considering that the quantum field theory of sub atomic particle physics is, at the end of the day, simply tautological hubris, one is left with the existential and nihilistic scream, as convulsive paroxysms of invalidation, into the voluminous void: What about THE CHILDREN?
@Sean Harper we did not even break Afghanistan, it was already a cluster fudge, we went there because the attack on us was planned there.
@gennaterra That doesn’t matter. America invaded Afghanistan, there’s no way around that. The rest of the world doesn’t care who was president at the time.
The Day Pompeo Reached Agreement With Taliban
Is The Day Civilian Evacs Should Have Started
@Don Lowther right of course MY party line drivel when YOU just tried to blame Obama!
Take your BS and shove it Chumpie!
ONE representative voted no in 2001, it was a Democrat! Do take your party line BS and smoke it, Senators haven’t “overseen” a war since Bush nullified their war powers. You don’t know sht
@Don Lowther oh and the word your trying to use is drivel moron not dribble!
@John PopMISSION WAS COMPLETED. Who else is there to blame?
@John Pop when all you have left is attacking a misused word my mission is complete just like mission completed may 2 2011. Facts are facts.
The thing is, the government in Kabul was not ‘their’ government. It was a US proxy. This region is ruled by ancient tribal systems. These people have tossed one empire after another out. How arrogant and ignorant we are to think we could have changed anything with diplomacy at the tip of a sword.
Nation building in Afghanistan was secondary goal/vision propagated by Bush that was always a pipe dream. Unfortunately it took hold as the primary reasoning of staying there. In reality our only motivation for staying there should’ve been to prevent it from becoming a terrorist launch pad for Al Qaeda again. Also it provided a strategic American military presence in the area. If you want to cut American spending in Afghanistan then cut the nation building oriented expenses, but keep a military presence there and continue to logistically support the Afghans in their fight against the Taliban. 50,000+ Afghans have died in the last 7yrs fighting for their country, and Biden’s slandering them by saying they don’t fight. Obama & Trump both took the correct approach, Biden took a very wrong one.
@sonnyblack0870 why did the Soviet lose then? They stayed their with total military domination and establishments. History of this country was much peaceful from 1930 till 1972 but both super powers didn’t learn from the British failure either.
The US spent 20 years in this country, four different presidents, and the only president who had the balls to do what had to be done is Joe Biden, so I say Good Job, Mr. President!
Trump been said this is what he wanted to do, but he would have known to withdraw the American people first before taking away our soldiers.
@Mo’s Motivation Trump withdrew soldiers and didn’t take anyone back
@Timbone You really are naïve.
@N 827 wrong. It was the right thing to do. It took courage.
@Motivation 317 Trump put this in motion. The central govt of Afghanistan failed its people and had no support in the end. The blood was happening everyday. Bush failed the Us getting the Us in there, and the other Presidents were afraid to get the Us out – but hey the military industrial complex made billions, they were the real winners.
So sad but so true. After 20 years of help and you aren’t willing to learn to defend yourself, how much more time, money and lives does others need to spend to just prop up a government.
Doesn’t that happen pretty much where ever we go ?
Iraq is still recovering from the “help” you gave them. I expect you’ll be “helping” Iran next or another country that has something you want.
The people are blaming us?!! Their leader skipped the country! He didn’t use the money we sent to support the military!!
We should get out and hope the Taliban will be kinder to them. Wishful thinking!
It’s the media who are putting the pressure on Americans by continually showing the plight of these Afghanistan struggles to leave !? Hasn’t America done more than enough, already ? I hate to say it, but their problems are their own, not Americans.
The whole area is tribal and have been at war with each other for hundreds of years. Just let the Taliban take over and any signs of terrorist camps just send in the drones with their missiles. Far better than putting soldiers at risk.
This isn’t an American territory. We trained them and that should’ve been enough. Our people shouldn’t have to die to protect people who don’t want to fight for themselves.
@Jose Ramos you went half way around the world to break their stuff and now you are crying not my fault
With power come actions and actions bring consequences 911 was blamed on forgetting about Afghanistan after the Russians left don’t forget them again
I agree
@Mephistopheles Count Caliostro I believe that, to an extent. Al Qaeda probably never fully left the region.
Mostly true
@I DRES Biden didn’t mess up. The entire US, and 4 Presidents did. The 20 year war is over.
Just think of all that money the USA spent training the soldiers just for them to hide like children
they did n’t paid them for a long time because of corruption.
I believe they were doing it FOR THE MONEY. they didn’t pay much attention being taught how to fight. They all just gave up and are fine with their choices. I wish people in this country would stop the nonsense and division before we see this in the USA. absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Not only the US but also Euro sent billions and trained the army 🤦♂️ what a waste of money and time. Some people over there must be very very rich. 🤢
“US weren’t building from the ground up, they were trying to do “Nation-Building” from the psyche on up”
– an American soldier
Did Afghans ask for any “Nation-Building” assistance from anyone?
thank you brother, thank you for your service, we honor you in my home as we do all american soldiers
You were never in the military.
So, you do not get to speak on behalf of veterans
They sure don’t want to fight for their own country in Afghanistan
Finally.
It’s over.
They’ll have to take care of themselves. They should’ve for over a decade. Guerrilla tactics won out. We can focus on our own problems and invest in our infrastructure.
Trump undermined the legitimate government when he constantly negotiated with just the Taliban.
It Right!
Sorry, Ur Right !
Afghanistan army values their lives. Thank God and President Biden for ending this now senseless war🙏🙏
well to be fair … they’ve seen this before with the soviets lol soo