Seth Cousins, who served as juror number 3 in the Roger Stone trial, talks with Rachel Maddow about the work ethic and fairness of his colleagues on the jury and attacks by Donald Trump and his servile media on the jury foreperson and the judge in the case. Aired on 02/27/20.
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Roger Stone Juror Speaks Out About Trump Attacks, Civic Duty | Rachel Maddow | MSNBC
“Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them.”
―Frederick Douglass
“Sociopaths have no regard whatsoever for the social contract, but they do know how to use it to their advantage. And all in all, I am sure that if the devil existed, he would want us to feel very sorry for him.”
― Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door
(The traumatic basis for the resurgence of right-wing politics among working Americans): “The embrace, by working Americans, of policies that hurt their own interests can be understood on the basis of Ferenczi’s model of identification with the aggressor. Intrafamilial child abuse is often followed by the abuser’s denial. Children typically comply with abuse, in behavior and by embracing the abuser’s false reality, under threat of emotional abandonment. Similarly in the sociopolitical sphere, increasing threats of cultural and economic dispossession have pressed working Americans to adopt an ideology that misrepresents reality and justifies their oppression. In society as in the family, there can be a compensatory narcissistic reaction to forfeiting one’s rights that, ironically, encourages feelings of power and specialness while facilitating submission.” https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/pcs.2015.53
if the economy is doing so badly why is Obama trying to claim it???Russia….Russia….Russia….this is what this Russia is all about” [Donald] Trump’s economy is great for billionaires, not for working people,” Sanders likes to say. Meanwhile, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi grouses that under the Trump agenda, “the rich get richer, and everyone else is stuck paying the bill.”But not a word of this is true, according to new Census Bureau data on the incomes of America’s middle class. This study by former Census Bureau researchers and now statisticians at Sentier Research has found gigantic income gains for the middle class under Trump. The median or average-income family has seen a gain of $5,003 since Trump came into office. Median family income is now (August 2019) $65,976, up from about $61,000 when he entered office (January 2017).Under George W. Bush, the household income gains were a little over $400 in eight years, and under Barack Obama the gains were $1,043. That was in eight years for each. Under Trump, in less than three years, the extra income is about three times larger.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/15/its_a_middle-class_boom_141497.html
@Barbara Roberts Thank you. Likewise for your comments, which at this moment I have only skimmed and will read later. In the end, we have to live with who we are. We come in and go out alone, and none of us gets out of here alive. I like the Hindu beliefs in Karma, which implies there is no free lunch . . . it sticks with you. Whether you believe it is immatrial, but it is good food for thought.
_”Glad we are not one of them”_ is right. He is more sick than evil, I think, and he is plenty evil, but I believe it is sociopath behavior. He just knows nothing else but self interest.
Namaste.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbDvyVE8w1o&list=PLOhxuTxNTwnF5AVaTbLaK2rHPXHAM_ORU&index=2
@Barbara Roberts Having now read the entire thread, I must complement you in return as you have contributed a great deal to the impressive and enlightening post at the head of this thread.
I also saw Schiff interviewed by Jimmy Kimmel, and agree with all you said and I am incredibly thankful to have people like Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Schiff on our side. It is cartoonish when you compare them along with Chuck Schumer et al to their counterparts such as Nunes, Jordan, and Collins . . . you could not make this stuff up. And your point about Trump targeting those who threaten him the most like Adam Schiff is a good point.
That is why he went after Biden, who at that time seemed to be the biggest threat to Trump.
It is so transparent when you step back, and becomes so obvious so well exemplified by his insane fixation on Hillary, not merely because she was his opponent, but because she is a woman as well. And just as primitive is his incredible jealousy and envy of Obama. He cannot stand the comparison, because no matter what you may think of Obama if you are reasonable, he has dignity, ethics, adequate self-esteem, etc. . . . none of which Trump has and he knows it. And the fact that Obama was his predecessor, my God . . . Trump destroys anything that came from Obama merely because he is irrationally attempting to erase him from the universe. And add to that Obama being black . . . to a man like Trump to be bettered in all the ways he is by a Black man is totally embarrassed to a racist.
I know I am preaching to the choir, but it is refreshing to find a thread where intelligent and useful discourse is predominant. We all feel a bit helpless at this point, but as an old Harley-riding outlaw biker I knew (a nice person, not mean) used to say, “It’s a wonderful life if you don’t weaken.”
We have reason to believe that this darkness shall pass and we shall emerge bloody but not beaten, and all the wiser for it. After all, we are the arrogant Americans who rebelled against the British Empire and won against all odds, we stole this entire continent from the people who were here already, we have thumped our chest for much of our history claiming to be the most powerful and free county on Earth, we prevailed against far more formidable enemies in the world wars, we eventually stopped McCarthyism, we chased Russia out of Cuba, we landed on the moon . . . good or bad, this is American and it has been said you don’t mess with Texas . . . . well, you don’t mess with the USA either. Trump and his minions are oursmarted, outnumbered, and if it comes down to it, outgunned by arrogant egotistical patriots who will not go quietly. Remember Iwo Jima and Normandy. We shall overcome.
United we stand, united we shall conquer. Nice people will prevail.
Somebody said it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. Trump is a fool. The cowardly senators of the GOP are fools. History will not forgive them, nor will the rest of us I suspect. We will not go quietly. Remember the generals and admirals we do not see in the news. There are a lot of them and they are on the side of justice. Google Mattis et al.
We have not yet begun to fight.
Namaste.
The Sailor’s Wife
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcDPnp4weoU&list=PLOhxuTxNTwnF5AVaTbLaK2rHPXHAM_ORU&index=2&t=0s
How Long Can The Eagle Fly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHBojPP29lc&list=PLOhxuTxNTwnF5AVaTbLaK2rHPXHAM_ORU&index=11
Freedom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbDvyVE8w1o&list=PLOhxuTxNTwnF5AVaTbLaK2rHPXHAM_ORU&index=2
@jones Thank you. You’re words are very wise and insightful. I checked out you’re “Freedom” song..very nice..lyrics are so fitting also. Namaste to you also.
The first 3 words of the US Constitution are “We the People.”
Donald Trump will not be remembered well.
@Arthur Kroulik Why thank you, wait until you taste my man juice!
David Primeau The judge threatened him w more charges if he dared to speak up in public – so much for non partisan judge taking away his first amendment rights.
@wee huddy 😊👍✌️.
@Evelyn Goh Hun, and now he’s going to prison where he belongs. The judge put a gag order on corrupted pie hole cause he was talking about her and putting her in danger with his conspiracy theories! 🤦.
@Patrick Bullard I thought you inbreeding lefties cut your manhood off like the super liberal Harvey Weinstein did.
Fun fact: Democrats are so diverse they elected ilhan Omar. The very first member of Congress to successfully marry her brother. How progressive
It’s time for the evil republirussian party to be destroyed at the polls in November 2020. Stand up America and vote or our republic and democracy will be destroyed by the republirussian party.
@Glock Coley yeah, keeping people in the dark about anything sure keeps us free. You will go back to being the loser you truly are. You will be crushed in November.
@Bono Budju He would call off the election not because of the virus, but because he knows he can’t win. On inauguration day 2021, we will send in the army to remove the DICTATOR.
@davesbigplay The fake MSM is all propaganda for the Democrats always has been .. You still connecting russia with Trump when all that was a scam you would know that if you did some research, you would realize that you have been lied to about everything.. I am not the one lying to you ,fake MSM is…
@davesbigplay NPC detected.
@N¡ghtshade * ???????????????????????
Bone spurs never understood civic duty
Eastern Woods I had bone spurs years ago and they went away after a shot or two…they are no reason for not serving in the military.
Evil foreigner!
When will US voters, including Trump’s base wake up to the distruction of the Constitution and Democratic values being undertaken by Trump and the Republican Senators ??
Trump’s base have proved they don’t care about the constitution and democracy, as has the Republican party
John Ansell they are on deep sleep.
How can one expect Trump*s base to wake up, when supposedly informed Senators blindly follow the Dictator?
Deluded Moron Syndrome = cult of Trump
If you’ve never been asked to serve you don’t know that both lawyers ( teams of lawyers) choose the jurors. It is not a total random draw. So long story short – stones lawyers chose these jurors believing they would provide a fair if not favourable jury to stone. Every jury is picked this way to provide as unbiased as possible a jury as you can. Then both sides equally present the evidence- all of it. And the jury decides. People claiming otherwise are unaware if the process. And assume it was a fixed jury. Strangely if this was a fixed jury they would have found him Guilty of all 5 or at least a majority of the crimes, and his lawyers would t have chosen or allowed those jurors to sit for the trial if they suspected they were biased. I wish people were honest.
Yes Shannon – 9 years for a single tweet. Sounds sooo fair and unbiased,
…somewhere in China or Saudi Arabia.
@Mind Freshener – Let us hope you never get picked to serve on a jury. Also remember that Trump is best buds with Saudi Arabia, he loves their justice system.
@Mind Freshener why do people have a hard time realizing that 11 other people some who voted for Trump sat in that courtroom listened to all the evidence. And in a secret ballot all voted guilty on all seven counts?
They don’t technically “pick” the jury. The lawyers ask questions of potential jurors and can eliminate certain jurors based on perceived biases. But there are rules that must be followed while doing this.
the Criminal President flunked HS Civics….No doubt….and no doubt HAD SOMEONE ELSE DO ANY AND ALL COLLEGE WORK during his College time …..he cant read or write
Or speak. Put sentence together in a logical order.
@Annie you’re all right sir
@Rod spelling too quickly…..my bad…
@Annie more to my point exactly ! so where are his ”grades”?? LOL
if the economy is doing so badly why is Obama trying to claim it???Russia….Russia….Russia….this is what this Russia is all about” [Donald] Trump’s economy is great for billionaires, not for working people,” Sanders likes to say. Meanwhile, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi grouses that under the Trump agenda, “the rich get richer, and everyone else is stuck paying the bill.”But not a word of this is true, according to new Census Bureau data on the incomes of America’s middle class. This study by former Census Bureau researchers and now statisticians at Sentier Research has found gigantic income gains for the middle class under Trump. The median or average-income family has seen a gain of $5,003 since Trump came into office. Median family income is now (August 2019) $65,976, up from about $61,000 when he entered office (January 2017).Under George W. Bush, the household income gains were a little over $400 in eight years, and under Barack Obama the gains were $1,043. That was in eight years for each. Under Trump, in less than three years, the extra income is about three times larger.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/15/its_a_middle-class_boom_141497.html
very well said, ty dr maddow and mr cousins. and very proud of you for standing up mr cousins. you did your civic duty rather than just dodging jury duty and then spoke up when the honor of the jury was attacked.
So many brave ordinary people doing their civic duty and/or upholding their oath of office. One cowardly bully as POTUS.
Republican Platform 1956
We hold that the strict division of powers and the primary responsibility of State and local governments must be maintained, and that the centralization of powers in the national Government leads to expansion of the mastery of our lives
ROTFLMAO….say put some cheese on that burger
@Bellicose Ataraxia BURDGER use trumpolopgy an spell it his way.
read the pro trump MAGA accounts. They’re literally screaming for Vindman to be arrested and jailed for “treason”
I’m hoping Stone will never see the outside of prison again.
Over a funny tweet? Get over yourself, Fidel!
Ohhh, if Stone does actual prison time, he will sing, sing, sing. That is what Trump is really afraid of.
You know nothing about this so go get in the f****** corner
We have all given up expecting anything from this president but the worst. Of course that paves the way for many of his supporters to be their worst selves. This man has a toxic personality.
ALL??? Speak for your self but don’t dare to speak for me or the 50% of the population that support our president and know that he is doing a great job despite the BS from people like you.
@Bobby K Do you love all sexual predators or just the wealthy ones? Do you love all Cluster B psychopaths/sociopaths/narcissists or just the wealthy ones? Do you know the definition of CONSCIENCE? Are you mentally ill? Do you have a therapist? Are you influencing children? Your hero is evil, vile and dangerous. Great choice!!!! You are pathetic!!!
This guy is a true American hero for his short tour of duty as Juror #3. He risked direct attacks on his person by ?The president? I love this guy’s demeanor, his language use and ability to link words together , keeping his answers direct & precise. By his attitude, and the scoring of points for democracy, this guy no doubt has earned himself a tremendous gold star!
The first casualty at the end of this miserable, lie-infested, toady-ridden, life-threatening, criminal presidency has to be the utterly misbegotten opinion at main justice that a president cannot be indicted.
lochfc…was that a bad suggestion or what? They need to revisit all the things that have been twisted to save Trump.
He’s the first one to claim the system is rigged…it is. STOP, rigging the system for Trump & people like him; you are destroying the country.
👏👍👏👍👏👌👌👌
Agreed. It gives a signal that msybe he is above the law. Congress was supposed to have followup and bring charges but was swayed by popular opinion. ???
I read that this business of not indicting a sitting president was a Justice Dept memo/opinion, that in fact there is nothing in the Constitution to say it can’t be done. Too many outdated opinions and institutions, imo, are enshrouded in tradition or precedent and treated as if they are set in stone, instead of being overturned, or modified to reflect the present day. A classic example is the Electoral College. US already has a hugely complicated voting system. Why on earth do you need the Electoral College on top of that? Isn’t one man, one vote and a majority good enough?
if the economy is doing so badly why is Obama trying to claim it???Russia….Russia….Russia….this is what this Russia is all about” [Donald] Trump’s economy is great for billionaires, not for working people,” Sanders likes to say. Meanwhile, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi grouses that under the Trump agenda, “the rich get richer, and everyone else is stuck paying the bill.”But not a word of this is true, according to new Census Bureau data on the incomes of America’s middle class. This study by former Census Bureau researchers and now statisticians at Sentier Research has found gigantic income gains for the middle class under Trump. The median or average-income family has seen a gain of $5,003 since Trump came into office. Median family income is now (August 2019) $65,976, up from about $61,000 when he entered office (January 2017).Under George W. Bush, the household income gains were a little over $400 in eight years, and under Barack Obama the gains were $1,043. That was in eight years for each. Under Trump, in less than three years, the extra income is about three times larger.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/15/its_a_middle-class_boom_141497.html
Trump sure is good at shooting himself in the foot …. he now has no chance of getting any votes from those 12 jurors, or the judge, on election day.
Trump thinks courts are for suing people not for his criminal pals to answer for their crimes!
seriously….did any of your mother’s children live?
Hey Trump supporters: so does this guy deserve to be barraged with death threats for being on the jury and reaching a verdict based on evidence, which you don’t like?
Trump is threatened by anyone that appears honorable in the ordinary process of living their lives.
A very brave man! More Americans should speak up.
Seth, as a trial lawyer myself (NZ) I appreciate your comments. Trial by jury has to be understood in a comparative sense. That is to say it is different from a trial by judge alone. First it reduces corruption that is easier with a single and known arbiter. Second the multiple jurors offer a better judgement than a single judge. Corruption from a single judge is common. When I say ‘common’ – well to be honest there are no statistics on this. I have seen judges give a ‘tailwind’ to their gut feeling, their like / dislike of counsel, their prejudice in favour of the police.
Seth, in your case I find it anti-democratic that the president of your country should even dare to comment.
Omg – After Hearing This Guy, i have RENEWED FAITH IN THE Survival And CONTINUATION OF AMERICA. I Thank Him For His Service to America.♥️🦅♥️🦅♥️🦅♥️🙋♀️Its Really an Honor To Hear His Upbeat Talk.Oh yes, the term is, this conversation renews my faith in the intelligence and patriotism of my fellow americans. “Ask Not What Your Country Can Do for You, Ask What You Can do for Your Country.” And he has.♥️🙏♥️Land of the Free Home of the Brave, Still.♥️🌎♥️🌍♥️🌏♥️🐝♥️🙋♀️